Categorized | Foreign Policy, Human Rights, Point of View, Politics, President Obama, World News
From Astroturfers to Afghanistan
by hardybear
Posted on 23 September 2009 | 2:29 pm 
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Another Sunday, another bland edition of Meet the Press … not so much, this week. President Obama made a lengthy albeit previously recorded appearance, which was then analyzed by Senators John Boehner and Lindsey Graham. [Pithy sidebars: Boehner was less day-glo orange than the norm, and Miss Lindsey, obviously eager to be off to brunch at Dupont Circle's Tabard Inn, displayed a wee bit more muscle than is his wont.]
Gregory appeared to have had more than token help formatting his questions, as there were actually a couple of clever, nearly bordering on probing, queries.
Miss Lindsey had plenty to say, including that the President is ” selling something that the people aren’t buying” re healthcare reform. Apparently the conservatives haven’t gotten wind of the reality that most Americans see a need for reform. What they are ‘not buying’ is the astroturfed, inane loony right wing version of what reform is. Graham then went on to intone that Obama has “been on every network but the Food channel” … does he think the President’s holding back a show where he shows Paula Deen a better way to cook fried chicken and use gubberment cheese in new and delicious fashions?
After the dastardly duo finished hammering Obama on healthcare, they raised cudgels aloft re Afghanistan. They think we need more troops there, it’s the place from which we were attacked. It’s the place we can never let ‘go bad’ again. The counter-insurgency isn’t probably resourced, they chorused, and that is indeed the magic key to allowing us to return home covered in glory.
The President also addressed the controversial topic of our involvement in Afghanistan. He reiterated a need for caution before sending young American servicemen/women over there, wanting his ‘comprehensive strategy review’ to be completed before decisions are made for deployment.
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President Obama on Afghanistan:
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Visit msnbc.com for Breaking News, World News, and News about the Economy
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The show wrapped with a shot of sanity, featuring my adored Eugene Robinson (and his oft insipid colleague from the Politico, Roger Simon). After an obligatory discussion of Jimmy Carter*, they made some apt observations on the non-populist Reagan legacy that is deeply impeding Obama’s quest to sell government as a solution, rather than as a systematic exacerbation of problems.
* Though, I would recommend Gene’s column on the subject, “The Favor Jimmy Carter Did Us All.”
The New York Times ran a piece today about the likely change of approach the Administration is considering in Afghanistan. Vice President Biden is taking the tack that Pakistan should be more of a priority, which seems practical and prudent. The troops will need to enter Pakistan via Afghanistan presumably, so I do wonder if it is another segue to bumping up the numbers as McChrystal has requested.
Obama Considers Strategy Shift in Afghan War
By PETER BAKER and ELISABETH BUMILLER
WASHINGTON — President Obama is exploring alternatives to a major troop increase in Afghanistan, including a plan advocated by Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. to scale back American forces and focus more on rooting out Al Qaeda there and in Pakistan, officials said Tuesday.
The options under review are part of what administration officials described as a wholesale reconsideration of a strategy the president announced with fanfare just six months ago. Two new intelligence reports are being conducted to evaluate Afghanistan and Pakistan, officials said.
The sweeping reassessment has been prompted by deteriorating conditions on the ground, the messy and stillunsettled outcome of the Afghan elections and a dire reportby Mr. Obama’s new commander, Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal. Aides said the president wanted to examine whether the strategy he unveiled in March was still the best approach and whether it could work with the extra combat forces General McChrystal wants.
Finish the article here.
Regarding Afghanistan, Obama seems damned either way in sheer political terms. The far Left increasingly wants us out, and has of late begun to actually arrive at an anti-war position. The Right will criticize no matter what, but are ever eager to deride him as an ineffectual dove. Weak on security. Not patriotic or a real Amurrican. So whatever course the President takes, there will be outrage. He himself said, “I’m not interested in being in Afghanistan simply for the sake of being in Afghanistan or saving face.” Perhaps he was expecting better returns on his decision to send 40,000 more troops into the theatre early on in his term.
After reading the NY Times article, I wanted to refresh my understanding of Biden’s position on Afghanistan, and what specifically it was that Obama had rejected back in March when the vice preisdent proposed it. His oft-quoted “the United States spends something like $30 in Afghanistan for every $1 in Pakistan” quite speaks for itself.
Biden’s pre-inaugural trip to Afghanistan was a huge influence on his opinions regarding how to go forward in the region. He felt there was little collective knowledge on the ground of why the U.S. and allied forces were there, of what specifically their mission is. Since that time the obviously compromised elections have done nothing to clarify matters. Biden has also said that “Focusing on personalities is not the key to success,” implying that we have to deal with whomever is indeed elected by the people.
Biden has also consistently argued that a sizable increase in resources for Afghanistan must mean less for Pakistan, a mistake he volubly criticized Bush43 for making. In some ways, he has told colleagues and fellow cabinet members, Pakistan is more important than Afghanistan. As extremism is undoubtedly on the rise there, we must now realize that al-Qaeda has elbow room and great tolerance, leaving the government of Pakistan, a nuclear-armed nation, woefully vulnerable.
Vice President Biden on Afghanistan:
Visit msnbc.com for Breaking News, World News, and News about the Economy
Something else that gives me great unease, is the knowledge that the ‘ghost army’ of soldiers-for-hire are legion: private contractors have outnumbered U.S. troops in Afghanistan since March. Contractors now make up 57% of the Pentagon’s Afghanistan personnel. These numbers come courtesy of the Pentagon and and the Congressional Research Group. Here’s the kicker: the report concludes that “abuses and crimes committed by armed private security contractors and interrogators against local nationals may have undermined US efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan.”
[More on that, as well as a more comprehensive piece on Afghanistan, coming soon.]
59% of the American people are not confident that the war in Afghanistan will end well, according to a recent NBC/Wall Street Journal poll. The numbers evidence a keen age/generational chasm regarding whether to send more U.S. troops into the region. While slightly more than half of Americans oppose an expansion of the war, 52% of those who are 50 years old or older support it. In contrast, just 35% of those under the age of 50 back a troop increase there, while a whopping 62%oppose it.
I’m with the kids. And Joe Biden. I don’t see this as a war of necessity at all.
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(Report comment)
500,000 troops needed!!
Andrea Mitchell dropped this little bombshell yesterday:
“The numbers are really pretty horrifying. What they say, embedded in this report by McChrystal, is they would need 500,000 troops – boots on the ground – and five years to do the job. No one expects that the Afghan Army could step up to that. Are we gonna put even half that of U.S. troops there, and NATO forces? No way.”
[Reply]
September 24th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
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Sounds familiar, “A little more troops, a little more time” aka Robert McNamara’s 500,000+ troops in 1968-69.
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September 24th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
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We’ve been told we’re going to be stuck there 30/40 years .. “a generation”, before it’s safe to leave Afghanistan to function as a stable state on it’s own….(This was mooted recently and also about 12 months back by Army Brass )
then a Govt. spokesman hurriedly denied it, but the cat was out of the bag……. We were told by John Reid, Foreign Sec. at the time we went there, that the troops would only be there 6 months, and “Not a bullet would need to be fired”……. sort of like we were told about Saddam’s WMD and he possessed the capability to fire these weapons , at Britain and British interests within 45 mins……… the lies just roll out.
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September 24th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
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The rhetoric is almost EXACTLY the same as Vietnam. AND surprise, surprise whenever we ramped up, the “invisible enemy” ramped up too because everyone you kill is someone’s father, brother, son, cousin, nephew etc.
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September 24th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
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Same tactics.Persuasion and government by fear.
The more things change, the more they stay the same…………………….
You serve in Vietnam ??
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September 24th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
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Not willingly.
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September 24th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
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Presume the draft got you ??
How long were you there for?
Willing or not, hats off all the same and glad you made it home.
You must look back and think.. “Was it all worth it?”
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September 24th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
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Yes, only one tour and the answer to your last question is it was a complete waste of time. It resulted in 54,000 Americans dead plus the injured, an untold number of Vietnamese murdered, the drug culture in the US largely came as a result of this and not one goddamn thing changed in the outcome other than the time frame.
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September 24th, 2009 at 6:01 pm
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I am so sorry that you and so many others had to experience that tragic loss of life, limb and youth. Our country shares a collective shame for that debacle.
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September 24th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
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Thanks, but I’m alive and well. Stop it from ever happening again in your lifetime if you can.
What I wrote below is true, “Nationalism and the wars which ensue have to be stopped NOW or we are all doomed. Seventy million people died in World War II and that was long before we achieved the killing technology we possess today.
The majority of the war mongering class has never actually been on a battlefield. Still they expect you to send members of your family to kill and die for their enrichment, whether it is monetary or emotional.”
[Reply]
September 24th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
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Like I’ve said… “Lions led by donkey’s”
And you are right…. all “Armchair generals”… they and theirs never see action.
That said, hats off to the Royals on this one.They always do their bit….. they consider it their “duty” to go……. the Queen wanted Harry to go,(In her heart she must have felt different), but her,Charles and the rest feel they cannot expect her subjects to go and fight for Queen and country, send their loved ones off , whilst they sit on their arses back here….. Monarchy has always been the same…. Noblesse Oblige…. drilled into them from an early age.But the Pols.. esp with their mates in the “War is profit” game have no such scruples…. hell they’ve got no scruples, period.When did Bush ever see action… only through the bottom of a whisky bottle.
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September 24th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
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I would be hard pressed to sign my kids up for any kind of war. I adamantly oppose war.
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September 24th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
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I have been against war since I could reason. I cannot tolerate hitting, let alone maiming and killing. You are so right when you speak of those who send our men and women into wars. How do they reconcile the very idea of asking people to risk their young lives for their complete and utter diregard for diplomacy, turning the other cheek, sharing resources and respecting other countries right to determine their own destinies? Violence of any kind is lost on me.
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September 24th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
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Luvo, gonna luv ya and leave ya in a minute…. it’s 2.30 am here, and I’ve got a busy day ahead…….. so, gonna drink my cocoa for a minute, then I’m orff the old apple and pears to noddyland…… nitey nite… see’e ya tomorrow.x.
remember… keep stum !!!
Nite everyone…. been nice meeting you Esprit and Apogee.nite.
[Reply]
September 24th, 2009 at 6:32 pm
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You are way too much fun. When we come over in 2010, I am going to make sure I get to see you in person!!! Next June, missy!! Sweet Indy 500 dreams! Good night.
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September 24th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
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Gotta go now… cocoa finished.talk tomorrow. We’ll have a foursome!!!! (The clean version !!!)Now I’m ORFFFFFF….. BYEEE x
September 24th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
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Sleep well and may you dream your fondest dreams.
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September 24th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
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Furthermore, how can you someone to kill someone they don’t even know???? I am unable to wrap my brain around that one. My heart hurts just thinking about the fear I would feel being in that situation.
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September 24th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
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ask ^^^
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September 24th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
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I’ve always hated bullies and have found most bullies are cowards.
To think of my country in that context really upsets me. This is against everything which I was taught in school about America.
The reaction to 911 and the foaming at the mouth cheerleading for the invasion of Iraq was one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to deal with.
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September 24th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
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same here. I hope there are more of us than them. Now we need to organize!!
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September 24th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
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Rumsfield and Cheyney have a lot to answer for.
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September 24th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
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I despise bullies too. Repelling the invading enemy is the only way my heart could be in any kind of battle.
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September 24th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
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Agreed.
September 24th, 2009 at 7:08 pm
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Self defense is a must. I think that’s why I can relate to the insurgents better than I can our own soldiers. We invaded THEIR homes and country.
September 24th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
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If humanity would only learn the lessons of History….. but they never do… keep repeating the same mistakes over and over…….
Hell, we even do it in our own lives……..
The British military, who know military history better than the politicians warned the Govt, about Afghanistan…. the Russian defeat…. our 2 defeats there….( neither the Russians nor the Brits are cut and run armies, and both are good fighters)…but both still lost…. The Terrain, the Afghani’s are born warriors……. Blair wouldn’t listen….Pols never do.I think sometimes it should be a military decision , a practical one, and not a political decision by some meglomaniac on an ego trip.
We were warned from the start this was going to be another Vietnam. I agree with your thoughts….. we should have sent as many Special Forces in as we could, as quickly as we could, got in quick…. got out quick.
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The idea that this is a “war of necessity” is BS. We were attacked by a bunch of international criminals. We should have put 2,500 Special Forces into the area within 48 hours and told the Taliban, “Back off or you’re dead meat” and brought bin Laden to trial if he was the source of 911. Otherwise this does not compute as anything but political maneuvering.
There is no logical reason for us to be there eight years later since we are doing NOTHING to build the infrastructure or the political system. This is Vietnam II where we are propping up an illegitimate regime whose basis is drug-dealing and other generalized corruption.
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September 24th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
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September 24th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
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The only “war of necessity” that I can think of is to stop genocide. And, since WWII, we seem to be able to ignore those with no loss of sleep what-so-ever. If we are not there under a UN flag, we shouldn’t be there at all.
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September 24th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
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sadly, the only attention that the war on genocide gets is when Celebs and pro athletes talk about it.
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September 24th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
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War of Necessity means stopping an attack upon yourselves. We have a defense budget equal to the rest of the world combined, they have 20+ year old Soviet leave behinds.
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(Report comment)
…and the opposition to the war grows
[Reply]
September 23rd, 2009 at 8:58 pm
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It’s interesting there’s not really much support for it in England, and they’ve only committed 9000 troops.
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September 23rd, 2009 at 9:35 pm
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The British remember history.
Afghanistan was a quagmire in their history
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September 23rd, 2009 at 11:12 pm
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Twice.
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September 23rd, 2009 at 11:15 pm
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And they are coming home daily in body bags or on stretchers.
We support the troops… the govt. decisions… not so much…….. once again, it’s lions led by donkeys.
[Reply]
September 24th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
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What’s really interesting is that most Brits I’ve met hate the Israelis. They remember or have been taught in school about the Zionist terrorism against the UK during the British Mandate such as the King David Hotel bombing in 1946.
[Reply]
September 24th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
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By the Stern Gang…. and the hangings where they slit the bodies open, stuffed a bomb inside, dressed them again, and when the Brit soldiers went to cut the bodies down, THEY got killed when it blew up.
We never got taught it in school… I learnt about it later on….. and, to be honest, I’ve not met anyone who hates Israel…. that said, they are not over the moon about what they are doing in Gaza, and their defiance of the UN in expanding the settlements/building the wall, and stopping access to water.
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September 24th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
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Maybe it’s just that I’m of an older generation, but most Brits I have known don’t like or distrust Israel at best. Hate may have been too strong a term.
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September 24th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
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You sweet thing………. older generation… you flatterer you !!!!
I think you are right… hate may be too strong a term, but I agree about the distrust….. and , like I said, they are not impressed with the Govt. actions regarding Palestine.They also are wary of the influence Israel has over USA, and the way the extremely strong Jewish lobby in US can influence American policy regarding Israel………. we don’t have experience of that, and we find it a bit unsettling.
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September 24th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
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Me too on your last sentence. Half my family is Jewish and Israel scares the hell out of most of them.
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September 24th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
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“unsettling” … such an appropos term for the topic
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September 24th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
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Brits….. masters of the understatement..
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September 24th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
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I come down in about the same place on Israel’s influence on US policy. How is it that another nation can buy so much influence in the governance of another? That is just fundamentally wrong to me.
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September 24th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
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Ya think? This issue has a good portion of my family worried about a second holocaust or worse a third world war in the middle east.
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September 24th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
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Money.
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September 24th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
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Heh heh. Easy enough, eh? I was thinking more along the lines of how does it go unchallenged.
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September 24th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
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It can’t. Moneywise, Israel owns America… the WMF etc… google it all….”Israel owns America”"… gotcha by the short and curlies….
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September 24th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
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ouch.
[Reply]
September 24th, 2009 at 5:43 pm
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What you doin’ here???
Don’t you dare tell Babsy and co that I’ve been serious for once… I’ll never live it down !!!!!! Spoil me image guvn’r….(I’ll give you my recipe for “Scouse” to keep your gob shut !!!!
[Reply]
September 24th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
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I cannot be bought. I can be had though.
September 24th, 2009 at 5:49 pm
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I can’t be bought, or be had……….
I can’t even give it away…. !!!!
September 24th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
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December is just around the corner. Think about Xmas shopping and it will be here before you know it!!
September 24th, 2009 at 6:10 pm
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Ain’t shoppin’ I’s thunkin’ about…!!!!!!
Wonder what Santa will bring me…….
September 24th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
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I meant
September 24th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
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I hope you are right. We can’t continue on the current path. I just don’t see much change on the horizon.
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and we thought we had closed the book on our “Bushisms”
W asked about prison ministry program, responds:
“Everyone was black, of course.”
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/09/23/bush-ministry-prison-black/
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September 23rd, 2009 at 7:13 pm
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I’m figurin’ that book isn’t closed until they plant the shrub, so to speak.
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September 23rd, 2009 at 7:18 pm
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September 23rd, 2009 at 7:14 pm
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Oy.
[Reply]
(Report comment)
I need to send email to kellygrrrl but there’s a weird thing on the forum that doesn’t let me actually type out a message. It says something about code so I think it’s on a HTML setting of some sort. In any case, it’s beyond me. Kel, if you know my home email, send me an email. If you don’t have it, ask Babs.
Thanks!
Gotta go, kid needs pooter.
[Reply]
September 23rd, 2009 at 7:05 pm
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oh, you mean the warning that says “This user has blocked you”
j/k — you know my email addy still, don’t you? I’ll YGFM 
you
[Reply]
(Report comment)
Nationalism and the wars which ensue have to be stopped NOW or we are all doomed. Seventy million people died in World War II and that was long before we achieved the killing technology we possess today.
The majority of the war mongering class has never actually been on a battlefield. Still they expect you to send members of your family to kill and die for their enrichment, whether it is monetary or emotional.
The only way to stop this madness is to refuse to bend to their whining about God, Country or Economic Systems.
We are about to enter the era of the “Killing Machines”. The US Army at this time has robots (this is not a fantasy, you can read about this in Popular Science) just like the Terminator. They are not on line now, not because they don’t work, but because they cannot discriminate in their killing function. The U. S. Army estimates having these machines in the field within 20 years. After this, any hope of “Democracy” is dead. It will be back to those who have the guns make the rules.
We must ALL work together NOW to bring about PEACE internationally or there is no future worth living for our descendants.
[Reply]
September 23rd, 2009 at 5:31 pm
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“I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.” –Albert Einstein
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September 23rd, 2009 at 5:45 pm
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Einstein was wrong. We have the capability to easily destroy nearly all life on earth.
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September 23rd, 2009 at 6:04 pm
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Einstein was correct. And his statement was and is a warning.
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September 23rd, 2009 at 8:51 pm
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No, he was wrong, because if there is a WWIII there won’t be a WWIV.
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September 23rd, 2009 at 6:31 pm
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I think that’s the point of the statement — as in, we’ll start from scratch, if there is any planet earth left
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September 23rd, 2009 at 6:51 pm
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Hey, Kel, how close are you to Torrance? I don’t know my LA area that well.
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September 23rd, 2009 at 8:53 pm
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I disagree. Einstein was a physicist, so what he said leaves little doubt for interpretation in that physicists are precise with their language and their conclusions.
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September 23rd, 2009 at 5:46 pm
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Hear, hear!
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Seems to me we should pay attention to the amazing success the Russians had in Afghanistan. “Those who do not learn from mistakes are doomed to repeat them.” (I AM being sarcastic here )
I’m of a mind to pull our troops out of there and out of Iraq, take the abuse some will dump on the President’s head, and just let the whole mess go. As far as I can see, we’ve accomplished little or nothing to this point and I mourn the loss of our soldiers.
Since thus far there has been no definition of what a “victory” would look like, it seems odd to me to chase an illusion.
I remember Vietnam all too clearly…
A really good job, Ms Bear… thank you.
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September 23rd, 2009 at 5:02 pm
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Yes, MsDoc, the Soviet-Afghan War was a 9 year “conflict” from Wiki:
The total irrecoverable personnel losses of the Soviet Armed Forces, frontier, and internal security troops came to 14,453. Soviet Army formations, units, and HQ elements lost 13,833, KGB sub-units lost 572, MVD formations lost 28, and other ministries and departments lost 20 men. During this period 417 servicemen were missing in action or taken prisoner; 119 of these were later freed, of whom 97 returned to the USSR and 22 went to other countries.
There were 469,685 sick and wounded, of whom 53,753 or 11.44 percent, were wounded, injured, or sustained concussion and 415,932 (88.56 percent) fell sick. A high proportion of casualties were those who fell ill. This was because of local climatic and sanitary conditions, which were such that acute infections spread rapidly among the troops. There were 115,308 cases of infectious hepatitis, 31,080 of typhoid fever, and 140,665 of other diseases. Of the 11,654 who were discharged from the army after being wounded, maimed, or contracting serious diseases, 92 percent, or 10,751 men, were left disabled.[69]
After the war ended, the Soviet Union published figures of dead Soviet soldiers: the total was 13,836 men, an average of 1,512 men a year. According to updated figures, the Soviet army lost 14,427, the KGB lost 576, with 28 people dead and missing.[70]
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September 24th, 2009 at 9:32 am
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And given that these are likely Russian figures, I suggest that a multiplier be attached.
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(Report comment)
Just amazing, ugh. I was watching the Phillies game the other night and the requisite meeting at the mound occurred with the manager, catcher and pitcher discussing girls, just kidding (not), but their next move or “strategy” re the upcoming batter. The pitcher holds his glove over his face as he speaks so that the opposing team cannot read his lips. I guess they hire lip readers, 26th man on the roster? It’s unnecessary for the catcher to do the same as he is wearing that giant mask grill so you can’t see his lips anyway. And the manager? He just spits and looks important.
My point is, there is more subterfuge in a baseball game (football as well) than with our government who leaked a possible “strategy” on how to conduct this Afghan/AQ/Paki war. Doesn’t make sense to me. Is this just a trial balloon for we, the people?
War is not static. We change our strategy. The enemy changes theirs. Yes? Get out while the gettin’s good!
GO PHILLIES!
[Reply]
(Report comment)
They told me I had to go to Vietnam to “contain Communism”. The first thing I learned was that the majority of the South Vietnamese wanted to be re-united with their relatives in North Vietnam and all the mud, blood, shitting in your pants combat was for NOTHING.
I suspect the same here.
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September 23rd, 2009 at 3:56 pm
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I read your comment too quickly and thought is said “Continue Communion” — must be all the religious talk we’ve been having here lately
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September 23rd, 2009 at 3:56 pm
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p.s. EdV, thank you for serving.
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September 23rd, 2009 at 4:01 pm
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No need to thank me, there was the Draft in those days
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September 23rd, 2009 at 4:08 pm
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still, you did it, and you survived, and came out the other end with your sanity (or seemingly so, anyway
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September 23rd, 2009 at 4:13 pm
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Yep, ditto.
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September 23rd, 2009 at 4:16 pm
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If I had to do it over again, I would leave for Canada or Europe. I would never serve unless we were invaded.
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(Report comment)
since this isn’t the afghans and matching pillows thread I’ll go fix a late lunch
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September 23rd, 2009 at 3:07 pm
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September 23rd, 2009 at 3:10 pm
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I die. Such fantastic textiles.
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September 23rd, 2009 at 3:08 pm
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Check back next week, we can perhaps rustle something knit-worthy up by then in the Page 2 area.
[Reply]
September 23rd, 2009 at 3:10 pm
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I want this rug!!!
http://www.wshome.com/products/p5082/index.cfm?pkey=crugs%2Dsilks%2Dwo ols
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September 23rd, 2009 at 3:37 pm
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Stunning.
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September 23rd, 2009 at 3:46 pm
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That could found a very elegant room….
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September 23rd, 2009 at 4:03 pm
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The shipping is free. Order two!! Gorgeous.
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September 23rd, 2009 at 4:08 pm
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shipping? pffft! you think i’d miss an excuse to lunch and shop on Robertson?
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My silly opinion is that Obama rode the wave against war in Iraq but took up the cause of Afghanistan as a way to offset derision that he was a dove. It helped get him elected.
Afghan needs to be vacated. The idea that we are there because it was the “good” war is utter nonsense as is the long abandoned hunt for OBL. Count me as one of the left yapping for a retreat.
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September 23rd, 2009 at 2:53 pm
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I think one of the problems is that he is listening to the generals who are gung ho for war, because they are just Pentagon tools, unfortunately. I hope Obama changes his position on Afghanistan, and does it fast. There’s no reason for us to be there, unless we are going to root out Al Qaeda, and that doesn’t take all those forces, it takes a different kind of military operation. Inserting puppet governments is always risky business, because to prop them up you need an army and our military is stretched to the very limit.
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September 23rd, 2009 at 2:59 pm
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Apparently we’re already contracting most of it out privately anyhoo. Which is a moral quagmire in and of itself.
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September 23rd, 2009 at 3:43 pm
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The private military is the single most dangerous thing about the current military industrial complex, imho. It really concerns me a great deal, especially when they are involved domestically. Their continued presence is neocon detritus and shooter dick’s and rumdumb’s legacy. The federal govt. should stop the practice of funding these private military organizations asap.
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September 23rd, 2009 at 3:48 pm
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Precisely. I’m reading Jeremy Cahill’s book about Blackwater, and it’s horrific.
It’s very feudal in a sense.
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September 23rd, 2009 at 5:50 pm
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This is another thing that irks me. The administration has taken no steps to reduce the number of mercenaries. We still have 250,000 employed in Iraq and Afghanistan.
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September 23rd, 2009 at 5:56 pm
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I’m willing to presume, for a short time, that they have been painted into a corner by the previous administration, and can not make change quickly. I hope my patience is rewarded but we shall see.
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September 23rd, 2009 at 2:57 pm
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Indeed I shall, Wizard. It does seem that Obama is attending Joe Biden a bit more this go-round, which may assist.
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September 23rd, 2009 at 3:00 pm
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Just heard Matthews say that Afghanistan is neither a campaign nor a PR issue … that seemed a pert and pertinent distinction.
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September 23rd, 2009 at 3:08 pm
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every now and again Tweety seems nearly admirable.
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September 23rd, 2009 at 3:10 pm
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The Tweety can on occasion rise to it.
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September 23rd, 2009 at 5:36 pm
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September 23rd, 2009 at 5:41 pm
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Eew.
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September 23rd, 2009 at 3:03 pm
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the first time I heard of Obama was in the fall of 2002 (two weeks before Congress voted to give W authority to go to war) Obama gave a brilliant speech about why he was against the “stupid war” in Iraq. He made it very clear he was not against all wars.
btw, the video of that speech has been lost, but here is a great video of the text of the speech
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September 23rd, 2009 at 3:07 pm
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Thanks for the vid kel, very good perspective there. It’s always powerful to see great words spoken by real people.
(I hope they find the original footage though … for history’s sake.)
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September 23rd, 2009 at 3:12 pm
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I think it’s weird that it got disappeared
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September 23rd, 2009 at 3:32 pm
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Extraordinarily strange, that.
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September 23rd, 2009 at 5:37 pm
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though, I kind of take pleasure in knowing he already had them a little nervous even back in ‘02
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September 23rd, 2009 at 3:05 pm
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I agree with you 100%! I want out. It still all boils down to we’re chasing a “ghost.” No mas!
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